SPEAKER_00 0:15

Welcome to Practically Fit, Real Fitness Over 40. I'm Jen Chamberlain.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

And I'm Alex Johnson.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

And today we're going to talk about dieting. Is dieting healthy? Does it wreck your metabolism? And most importantly, what are some practical tips for those of us trying to shed a few pounds? So based on our conversation in a recent episode about New Year's resolutions, I suspect some of our listeners are trying to lose or maybe even gain some weight this year. What do you think, Alex?

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Yeah, we had found that uh online poll from last year, and uh that was like right at the top of the list. So this seems like a great thing to be talking about here uh as we head towards February, still in January. Uh, but yeah, absolutely. It's and and this is something I think, too, that's uh a sensitive subject for everyone, right? So we really wanted to take a deep, thoughtful dive into it today.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

It absolutely is sensitive. I will include myself in that too. So for my own part, I'll confess I'm trying to lose about seven stubborn pounds that I actually put on over my summer holidays uh last year, including going to your wedding in London uh or outside of London, Alex. Uh a few too many pints, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Yeah, pints, uh good food. Sorry about that. I apologize.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Yeah, it's okay. It was worth it. It was well worth it. Well, yeah, you also broke your leg on that trip.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Well, yeah, it contributed, but I think the pints contribute to that as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Yeah, yeah. But it's been just maddeningly difficult. I've really ramped up my fitness routine. Um, but you know, I'm really reluctant to diet because I hate dieting with a passion. I have had this love-hate relationship with dieting since I was about 14, you know, because of some of the body image uh issues that I had. And for me, it's just a soul-sucking endeavor. Uh, whenever I try to cut calories, I end up just thinking more about food. It's kind of like, you know, that old saw that psychologists have that when you try to not think about a pink elephant, that's the only thing you can think about, you know?

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Yeah, and and Jen, you're serious when you say you try to do it through exercise only. So uh Jin and I and our friend uh have a text thread ongoing, and one of the things we always do is like fitness accountability buddies is we share our workouts. And you have been doing like an extraordinary amount of working out on top of your normal running training and the sheet, you you're doing boxing training, like intense boxing workouts. So you're trying to do it through exercise alone.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

I'm trying, but it's just been really difficult, you know. Um, and I also know from the research we've looked into, Alex, too, that it's difficult to lose weight through exercise alone. So, you know, I'm just struggling at this point, and I really wanted to get into this episode to see what the science is behind dieting, whether calorie cutting is the way to go. But Alex, I think your experience has been a little different from mine in that maybe you tried to gain weight when you were younger.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Yeah, that's right. So uh you you remember the growth chart, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Did you did you do that? Did your doctor, like your pediatrician, have the growth chart?

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Yeah, so traumatizing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

I think I was in like the eighth percentile on weight or something ridiculously low to the point where I think I was about 13 or 14. The doctor uh told my mom, we needed to start buying these weight gain shakes. And I think they're called insure. I think they still have them. Oh, but they're more for seniors. Yeah, they're for seniors to the because you you know, if you're when you're older and maybe you lose your appetite, they still want to make sure you're getting, you know, quality nutrition and vitamins and and protein and things like that. So I was drinking those trying to gain weight. I mean, people made fun of me for being as skinny as I was. I'm an extremely skinny person, and um honestly, I never really put on weight until college until I really learned how to uh lift weights. Oh, wow so yeah, that was that was really my focus growing up, and then I kind of as I got later into my 20s, um, I did put on some some pounds. I had uh like a really early schedule. I was working at work, so I was tired when I would get home. I'd work from like 5 a.m. to 2 p.m. type of thing. And uh I would I would end up eating a lot of fast food, like uh, you know, Taco Bell and Taco all the tacos, taco bueno, yeah, burgers, taco bell diet, yeah, mucho, nachos, gorditas. It was bad. I yeah, so I mean I got there's a certain number I got to, and you know, we're not gonna talk about numbers today, but it was where I felt like, oh, I don't feel good anymore. And that was kind of a trigger for me that really started me on my fitness journey. So I was able to take it off to things like circuit training and uh running. But yeah, it's it's been for for a good part of my life it was actually focused on gaining weight.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Yeah, yeah. Well, research tells us that we are decidedly not alone. According to a report by Market Data, the US weight loss industry was worth almost $73 billion in 2021. And that was up 24% from 2020, which was kind of interesting to me because um the pandemic shuttered some weight loss centers and some medical programs, so it took a dive in 2020 and then shot back up again. But aside from that blip, it has just been on a steady march upwards for the you know the past uh, you know, since they've been tracking these things. So um that doesn't include weight gain. This is just the weight loss industry. But if you include weight gain, you know, things like protein shakes and muscle building and exercise and the whole health and wellness market together, you're looking at $450 billion, according to McKinsey. That's just in the United States alone.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

That's that's immense. 400, that's like the GDP of a small country.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Exactly. That's what we're investing in health and fitness. So it's kind of a national obsession, you know. So that's you know, we wanted to really look into this, and there's a lot to unpack here. We're certainly not qualified to give medical advice. So, you know, you should definitely start with your doctor if you're seriously considering weight loss or weight gain. But we did want to look at some of the research specifically around dieting. Alex, a few episodes ago, you do debunked this idea that our metabolism slows with age. So one of the things I've always been curious about is whether restricting your calorie in case intake can slow your metabolism as well. So, what does the science say about that?

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Yeah, and you know, the the one caveat on the the research around metabolism was that that is just one of the most recent studies, but it was quite intriguing and got a lot of coverage, and people were interested in it. So uh as far as this idea about restricting calorie intake, slowing your metabolism, there's bad news and good news. So research shows that calorie restriction, or what they would call a hypocaloric diet, can slow your metabolism. Uh, there's an article that we found from Family Practice magazine titled Effects of Dieting and Exercise on Resting Metabolic Rate and Implications for Weight Management. So it reviews a lot of the research out there, which is great. Uh, I love it when we find a good review of research and we don't have to read these articles in depth because they're very technical. But uh this article says, quote, the majority of studies point to a reduction in short-term resting metabolics metabolic rates that is greater than can be explained by the loss of body mass or fat-free mass over the same time period. Unfortunately, there has been very little work done over the last few years regarding the duration of this phenomenon. Uh they go on to say that this could be a particular problem for highly motivated patients who severely restrict their calories to achieve large weight loss. And so I think this is a key point here that we want to talk about. Uh, quote, when they get to goal weight, their metabolic rate is severely depressed. So you achieve your goal, okay, I want to lose 20 pounds.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

And then they can experience almost, quote, immediate weight gain if they resume their prior higher calorie intakes.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Wow. So this is that kind of yo-yo effect that you hear about a lot where people may lose a lot of weight on a diet and then they gain it back quickly after they stop. And we all have known people who've had this experience, and it's incredibly frustrating, right? Because you're trapped in a sort of vicious cycle. Um, I I've never unfortunately been good enough at dieting to experience this personally, but I've heard from friends who say this is a common experience, and it just can be very demoralizing, you know, especially for women. I think women are more prone to these dieting fads, etc.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Yeah. Now, wait, Jen, you didn't hear the good news. That was the bad news.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

So this same article, which is written for family practice doctors, says that if they encourage their patients to set a short-term weight loss goal and then maintain it for six months, that allows for, quote, readjustment of resting metabolic rate for new body mass, as well as for psychological adjustments and commitment to necessary behavior changes. So, in other words, it's more of a gradual weight loss scheme, and that's something that you can better maintain over time as opposed to this, you know, quick, um, severely severe restriction of calories to lose weight that then can result in the yo-yo effect. So longer term, kind of smaller goals parceled out a little bit better in terms of your uh metabolism.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Ah, okay. So that makes a lot of sense. So dare I say you need practical fitness goals so your body can adapt to them over time.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Yeah. And I really think too, the other point that they make is that you also need time to have this kind of psychosocial adjustment that they refer to and committing to the behavior change so that it's not where you just fall back into your old patterns again, you know, right away. So that makes a whole lot of sense. So then I guess the question is what is the best way to get there, you know, to these this gradual weight loss goal? So we already talked about fad fitness in our episode on toxic fitness culture. And I think most people know by now that fad diets are well, they're just fads, right? I mean, how many can we think of that have come and gone that you don't hear about anymore? Uh for me, like South Beach diet was big for a while.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

South Beach, Atkins is I still see that. I saw, you know, some celebrity hawking some Atkins chips going strong. A commercial the other day during a football game. Um Paleo. Paleo, those are big right now. Keto seems to still be really big.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Yeah. Yeah. Uh so yeah, so you know, these fads, they come and go, but that um I think most people recognize that's just not the best way to lose weight. But what about old-fashioned calorie counting, right? Um, surely this is the surefire way to lose weight. It's basic math, right? Uh calories in, calories out. I'm sure you've heard that too, Alex, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Just basic math. Yeah. I could just eat like 2,000 calories of chocolate. I'll be good.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

That's right. Daily recommendation, doesn't matter what form they come in. Wrong. I was completely surprised when I started looking into this that many reputable health experts say you should not count calories. Um, so listen to this quote. This is from an article I found in out of Harvard Medical School. And uh the person I'm quoting is Dr. Fatima Cody Stanford. She's an obesity specialist and assistant professor of medicine and pediatrics at Harvard Medical School. She says, quote, the idea of a calorie in and a calorie out when it comes to weight loss is not only antiquated, it's just wrong. Drop the calories notion, says Dr. Stanford. It's time for a different approach. Putting the emphasis on improving diet quality and making sustainable lifestyle improvements to achieve a healthy weight. So why is counting calories wrongheaded? So, according to this and several other articles I found, not all calories are created equal to your point, Alex, about chocolate or cheese puffs, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Cheese puffs, yeah. That was that was what I wrote about on the newsletter this year.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

That's right. So why is that? A couple of things here. So, first is your gut biome. This has been the source of a lot of study recently. I think it's kind of interesting, but research researchers have found that taking the microbes from the gut of someone who's lean and putting them in someone who is overweight can result in weight shifts. So probably it's not the best or most practical way of losing weight, but it does say something about our gut biome, right? Second is your metabolism. So we already talked a little bit about this. Losing a lot of weight quickly could set you up to gain it right back again by slowing your metabolism. And then third, perhaps obviously, what you eat matters. So a 2019 study published by Cell Metabolism found that eating processed foods seems to spur people to eat more calories compared to eating unprocessed foods. So that's really interesting too.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that's that's uh important to remember when it comes to processed foods um in general. We'll talk more about that a bit later in the podcast. I also think what you were just talking about with the research into gut microbiomes is fascinating. I mean, this is, you know, what they're learning about the gut is it's it's essentially the almost like your second brain, right? Like it has um an amazing nervous system attached to it. Um and and uh you like you said, it's not practical right now to insert, you know, the gut microbiome of a lean person into uh an obese person, for example. Right. But I think it might be at some point. I've I've this is yeah, I saw some news coverage a while back. There were researchers at Harvard who've found a special type of gut bacteria in the microbiomes of elite athletes. Oh, yeah. And I think that they can turn this into a probiotic for those of us who are not elite athletes, uh, within the coming years. So, like it could actually be practical at some point soon to take a new probiotic that helps your your gut uh in this regard, which is mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Oh, this is exciting. So that means that maybe I could actually get into the Boston Marathon. I just get some gut microbes from an elite runner, and there we go.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Oh, see, this has so many implications for sports, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Performance-enhancing drugs, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Oh, good point.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Yeah, we we'll have to do an entire other podcast at some point about the gut uh because it's it's fascinating. So um uh aside from that detour there, Jen, based on what you've read and your experience, uh what do you think people should focus on in terms of diet and weight?

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Yeah, that's a really good question. So we've learned, you know, through the research that losing weight too quickly and fad dieting can slow your metabolism, and surprisingly, that counting calories isn't the answer. And man, am I glad to hear that because I really hate counting calories. Um so most health experts suggest the keys to success are practical changes. So, what does that look like? Focusing on the quality of your diet uh as well as exercise, stress management, because stress can actually make you eat more. It's not just psychological, you know, it can uh fuel cortisol, which makes you want to eat more. And then getting enough sleep is really important too. And I've certainly felt that in my own personal experience, uh, where you know you're just tired and dragging and you think maybe a little more chocolate would help you get through the day.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Yeah, and if you do have that like stressful day um in your job, no matter what it is, yeah, I I've observed that urge to go for the cheese puffs or the chocolate. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Yeah. So for my own for myself, from my own experience, I often go back to what well-known uh author Michael Pollan has said, his kind of mantra, which is eat food, not too much, mostly plants. So if you're trying to lose weight, plant-based foods really can help because they generally have lower caloric density and they have a lot of fiber, which makes you feel full, uh, more so than like a processed food or something with a lot less fiber.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Yeah, same. I mean, I kind of take the same approach in the morning in terms of fiber. The smooth the morning smoothie is a great approach to this because it does make you feel full. So if you have a lot of berries, for example, in your smoothie, they have a lot of fiber in them. And yeah, that's a that's a great, that's a great tip.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yeah, I had one this morning, actually, a smoothie. Um, and then speaking of smoothies, watch what you drink, not smoothies, but in terms of other things you drink. So Alex and I are doing dry January right now, but when I'm not doing dry January, I know that those calories in my beloved IPA or my Pinot are just empty calories that can very quickly add up. Um, same goes if you like Dr. Pepper or Snapple or even Gatorade.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Yeah, so is beer like the only thing where they just don't have to put the calories on there?

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Right, they don't.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Do they do that? So you live in California. I would expect if there's any place they're putting calories on beer, it would be California. Do they not? Do they make it?

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Not on the package, but I do see it on the menu sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Uh yeah, because you pick up a can of beer, it doesn't, I mean what? It could be 200 calories in an IPA. I see, I don't even know. Like that's totally so people don't I you know, out of sight, out of mind.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

That's such a good point, Alex. And there's never calories on wine. I have never seen that on a menu. Alcohol and gender point, like there's just no how is it that the regulations just how I'm confused by that. This is such a good, such a good point. But while we're on the subject, I will say, um, you know, in California, people are very health conscious here, and they do put ABV, which is what does that stand for?

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Um alcohol by volume.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

By volume, yes, thank you. They put that on menus uh very regularly, and so I know that the higher alcohol content things have, the more calories they have, which is why IPAs, and especially double IPAs, can have a lot of calories. So I guess that's a that's somewhat helpful, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Well, that's a good tip as well. I hadn't thought of that. But yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Yeah. So watch what you drink and then be mindful. So even if I don't have to count calories, I know that if I slow down and think about what I eat and take the time to enjoy food, then I'm gonna be better off health and fitness-wise than just mindlessly scarfing a bag of hippies cheddar puffs, which I confess to being one of my weaknesses in front of the TV.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

That's that's uh fake health food. I know. Yeah, they try to make it still processed, isn't it? We talked about processed foods. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

So what about you, Alex? What are your tips for somebody who's looking to maybe shed a few pounds?

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Yeah, um, great. I have a few here. Um, so first, I think kind of continuing that thing, definitely focus on the quality of food. Um, so we've talked about my weakness for cheese puffs, so you can read about it. I'm practically fit this week. Um, I love tortilla chips and salsa, but I do believe that the research that eating processed foods can spur you to eat more calories, it's that effect you mentioned, Jen, where you're just like sitting in front of the TV and eating an entire bag of chips. Yeah. Um, or if like we talked about earlier, if you're stressed, you tend to do that. Or even um for me, if I've done a workout, like we talked about running versus cycling culture right a while back. Right. One of the things about cycling is I feel like just an observation, people tend to like out-eat their uh their their cycling workouts because you feel like, oh, I've gone out and ridden my bike for an hour and a half. This is amazing. I can just eat whatever I want, but you can still out eat uh out eat the amount of calories you've burned on on the bike ride, for example. So that would be uh tip one. Also, with the quality food kind of angle, I would avoid artificial sweeteners. Uh so this is another one where they've done research around like diet sodas, things that have you know sucralose in them, for example, and that can actually increase hunger for people. There was a recent study that showed that diet sodas, uh, the ones sweetened specifically with sucralose, can increase food cravings, particularly in women and people with obesity. So yeah, always always be on the lookout for those.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Um that really speaks to the calorie thing too, because those beverages have zero calories.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Zero calories, but then they spur you to eat other food.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Wow, interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Yeah, it's quite it's uh it's is that a paradox? It's diet soda makes me gain weight. Um uh then another tip I think is to consider being flexible with your diet. And this is what, you know, in under the guise of cheese puffs, what I was writing about uh on practically. Um there's this idea of being flexible with your diet. Um so instead of just completely restricting everything, they've done research, and um, that can actually lead to this yo-yo effect that we talked about. Uh, and they looked at people who are very restrictive with their diets, and over time they see better success with people who are flexible. So still allowing themselves to eat some level of the foods that they really enjoy. Uh but the way I would think about it, and what this is kind of what I try to do personally, is focus on eating roughly 80% healthy whole foods, allowing 20% of your diet to be whatever you want. So that allows you room for those snacks that you enjoy, or for having, you know, a hamburger if you're into that, or a steak, or something like that. Uh, you know, not perfect from a nutrition standpoint. For me, I like steak, but I know it's not good for my artys, but I don't eat it that often, right? So with an 80 20 approach, I can do that. Some people even go 90 10. So um, yeah, there's different ways to do that. But I think this idea of flexibility, it really lines up with what we're all about here at practically. It while you know eating a reasonably healthy diet while still enjoying things that you love and having your IPA. Exactly. Yeah. I again I don't think this has to be heavily tracked as a percentage. Um as long as you stick that general approach and just kind of spacing things out on a daily basis or having a cheat meal here and there. Although the term cheat meal uh has its own problems, which I wrote about in the newsletter this week. It actually gets you to associate good and bad with food. So if you're labeling foods good and bad, that can lead to guilt.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

So yeah, I want to jump in with that a little bit because that's also something I've really worked on is that I do think the whole idea of labeling foods can be really counterproductive. It kind of like the pink elephant thing again, right? If you say something is bad or it's off limits or you're cheating, like that's the thing you're gonna want, right? So nothing is bad in and of itself, but just in moderation and keeping it in that balance that you talked about of healthy, you know, just a smaller percentage of your diet.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Yeah. And a couple more things I wanted to mention. Um so don't wait to start exercising until you've changed your diet. Uh on the New Year's Resolutions podcast, I mentioned some research out of Stanford. It showed that it was more effective to change your diet and start exercising at the same time. And in fact, this is even more relevant for this edition of the podcast quote. Uh, the researchers also found that focusing on changing diet first, an approach that many weight loss programs advocate, may actually interfere with establishing a consistent exercise routine. So if you're doing one of these weight loss programs and they advocate you to just focus on the diet and you can do the exercise later, that approach is is found to be not as effective and may actually uh inhibit your goals in the long run. Last thing I thought we should mention, um, instead of just like perhaps choosing one of these popular diets or programs, seek guidance. Find an expert, talk to your doctor. The family doctor is a great place to start. They you talk to them about your goals if you're wanting to lose weight, for example. Um, they may know a licensed nutritionist, a dietitian, someone who specializes and matches up with your weight loss goals, for example. I think that's a great place to start rather than you know trying to go out and finding one of these plans on the internet, just actually talking to someone and and finding an expert.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

That's a great suggestion. Yeah. Um sometimes uh your workplace may have that as a as a benefit, you know, to be able to speak with a dietitian. This had not really been on my radar until this was offered at one of my jobs. It just hadn't occurred to me to think I usually, you know, just go to Google first and uh, you know, there's actually people who specialize this and are trained in it.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

So yeah, hey, especially if you're an extrovert, right? Like my first as an introvert, my first uh inclination is to read and try to figure it out myself because I don't want to talk to people. But yeah, this I think it's a really great approach.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

So that wraps up our discussion about dieting. We've certainly learned a lot. I know I have, and I'm so glad to hear that counting calories is not necessarily the best approach because as I said at the top of this episode, I really hate counting calories, but there are some practical changes that we can make um that could make a difference in losing a few pounds and also just our overall health and wellness. So next week we're gonna talk about competition. Does being competitive help or hinder your fitness goals?

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Oh, it helps you.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Oh, I'm sure I knew you would say that. I knew you would say that.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

But no, we we will take a very balanced look at this. I'm just guessing.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yes, and we're gonna do some research. We're gonna do some research.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

I have a problem with that sometimes. I'm getting better though. I'm like reforming myself.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

So uh we'll see, we'll see. But you know, I'm sure it there's we all have some level of competitive drive. And so, you know, what can we learn from that? And what are some practical tips for harnessing it for the good of our fitness routine, whether that means reining it in or ramping it up? So um, I know Alex will have a lot to say about that one, and I might too, actually.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Yeah, I think we both have issues with this. Yeah, yeah, I'm looking forward to that. Uh, but until then, please go out to our Substack, practically.fit. You can sign up for our emails coming direct to your inbox, or if you have the Substack app, uh, you can comment on the podcast. If you do have stories you want to share, feel free to do it there, or you can email me, Alex at practically.fit. We'd love to share some more stories on the podcast in the future. Um, also, if you have an amazing story, we might interview you. We're oh yeah, we're thinking about you know starting to introduce interviews into the podcast this year, so looking forward to that. Uh, but that's it for this week, and until next time, remember that fitness is for everybody, and we're gonna go ahead and see what we're gonna do.