SPEAKER_01 0:00

Man, Alex, this has been the worst week for fitness. I have completely just fallen off the wagon. I haven't done anything this week.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

The whole week?

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Uh, most of the week, but definitely the weekend. I had some visitors from Dallas, my two former neighbors, and um yeah, we were um doing a lot of things, but they weren't really fitness-oriented.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Oh, were you engaging in some flexible dieting?

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Very, very flexible. Emphasis on the flexible.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

All right. What else did you do?

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Uh a lot of walking. I will say a lot of walking. That always is part of the par for the course in San Francisco. They were visiting me here in San Francisco from Dallas. Um, a lot of walking, maybe, maybe a little bit of drinking and um a lot of sightseeing and not a lot of exercise. So I'm ready to get back on it. I'm gonna go to boxing after this. I'm I'm back on the train.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Well, I just want to give you a positive spin on that. If you're doing a lot of walking in San Francisco, that's exercise. That's exercise. That's practical.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Welcome to Practically Fit, Real Fitness Over 40. I'm Alex Johnson. And I'm Jen Chamberlain. And today we're going to talk about your gut. Perhaps not the most pleasant topic, and there may be some TMI in store, but it's something that can definitely affect your fitness. We'll talk about what the research says about the importance of gut health and some particular pitfalls to avoid if you're into endurance sports.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Yes, absolutely. I can say, as a mostly a runner, that gut issues are something bordering on obsession with distance runners. It's right up there with fuel, which we talked about in an earlier podcast. Fuel being what you eat or drink before and during a run. And obviously these two things are related.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

So we're gonna share today. We're gonna be honest about ourselves and our experiences. Like I said, TMI coming on, but um, there's even been a trend on TikTok lately where people are talking about these issues openly. So that's what we're gonna do today.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Before we get into maybe the messier aspects, Alex, what do we know about the gut and fitness?

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Yes. Well, as I mentioned a couple of episodes back, there is really some fascinating research being done on gut microbiomes and the idea of transferring the gut microbiota from a fit person or even an athlete to a less fit person. But that's the future. That's not what we're talking about right now. We did find some research, though, that indicates that our gut microbiota and exercise are interconnected. So there was an article in the journal, Frontiers and Nutrition, titled Interplay between exercise and gut microbiome in the context of human health and performance. And it says that both moderate and intense exercise have an impact on your gut, but the effects are different. So here are a few key points. So when it comes to moderate endurance exercise, it reduces inflammation, improves body composition, and leads to positive effects on gut microbial diversity and composition and its metabolic contribution to human health. Endurance exercise exhibits positive effects on human health and on the gut microbial ecosystem, provided that the exercise intensity is controlled.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Okay, so so far what we're saying is that endurance exercise is pretty much good for your gut. But if it's too intense, maybe it can go in the other direction.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Right. When you're doing your marathons, maybe yeah, yeah. I'm just guessing maybe we're gonna get to that. Uh conversely, yeah, here we go. Intense exercise can increase gastrointestinal epithelial wall permeability, whatever that means, and diminish it sounds bad, and diminish gut mucus thickness, potentially enabling pathogens to enter the bloodstream. This in turn may contribute to the increase in inflammation levels. In other words, intense exercise can be hard on your gut.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Okay, that yeah, it doesn't sound nice.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

No, the this study also found that elite athletes have a higher gut microbial diversity, kind of what we've referenced previously, with where this new frontier is in terms of the gut and trying to come up with like a pill that could make us all perform better. Uh, and even they've they've looked at this in rodents, and uh they found that these effects are bidirectional. So exercise affects your microbiome, and your microbiome impacts performance. So, taking all this into account, the authors of this study suggest that the microbiota composition and its metabolic contribution to human host health could help in monitoring and modulating athletes' health and performance. Such an integrated approach could help in the design of microbiome-based solutions for health or performance.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Interesting. So that's a mouthful, Alex, but it gets back to the thing you were saying that the new frontier may be some sort of supplements that could help make your gut microbiota work for you.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah. And it's not even a mouthful, it's a gutful, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:03

It's ah yes, it's a gut full. Uh-huh. Well, it's really interesting. And I want to jump in here and talk about endurance running in particular, since that's something I have a fair bit of experience with, you know, I've run a few marathons. Um, so the same article you cited, Alex, it took a pretty technical look at what happens in your gut when you run long distances. And as I alluded to earlier, it's not all pretty. So let's take a look. Um, essentially, when you're running long distance, your body both ramps up blood flow and then needs to shift some of that blood that's pumping away from your gut to your heart and lungs to sustain the effort. So this unfortunately can cause some unpleasant side effects, namely lower GI distress, think cramping, bloating, and diarrhea. Yeah, we have a term for that. Those are the dreaded runners' trots. Oh, they're well known in the running community. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

You said we were gonna have TMI, so have we both had those?

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Oh yeah, yeah, I'm afraid so. And it's really unpleasant and hard to run through. And then there's upper GI distress like nausea and vomiting. Um, I haven't had that one as much. Have you, Alex?

SPEAKER_00 6:12

No, I I've never had upper GI distress in terms of like actual vomiting. I will say, um, I mean, okay, so I say I haven't had upper GI distress, but I meant particularly like I'm not throwing up when I've run, but I have experienced something sometimes when I'll do a really hard, intense effort, like even a sprint on my bike, like super intense where I'm trying to, you know, break some personal record, speaking of competition, or running when I was doing like 5K training. Um, and I think it's related to like acid reflux, where I almost get that like exercise-induced acid reflux, which can be a good thing. Yeah, yeah, never vomiting.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

That's well, that's good. That's that's a plus for both of us. Um, but just to put this in perspective, an article I found in Women's Running says that approximately 88% of the blood is shunted away from the GI tract to working muscle groups. So that's that's a lot. You know, your gut's really working overtime when you're doing endurance run, endurance exercise and running in particular. Now, there's another thing with running, and this hasn't been um it hasn't there hasn't been as much research that actually proves this, but there's a theory among scientists and researchers that running in particular jostles your internal organs. And so some experts theorize that that also contributes to GI distress. Basically, you're, you know, you're just kind of like shaking it all up in there.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

And then of course That's so scientific.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

It's so scientific. I know exactly. I guess they haven't figured out a way to like measure this well, the amount of shaking in your organs while you're running. Yeah, I don't know. Anyway, that is definitely a theory, though, among some experts. And then, of course, there's dehydration, which can cause some stomach distress, and that can be hard to separate from other things that could be causing your stomach issues. Right. So that's for running, and I will talk about some of the ways I found to deal with this. But Alex, I'm really curious if you've encountered anything like this. Uh, we talked about running, but uh on long bike rides or distance biking.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

So I've heard of cyclists who will be out on these long rides and they'll eat like horrible food from a convenience store, like a sticky bun or like little Debbie snacks. And you know, I've heard about things happening because of that. But yeah, I think it's a lot less um hard on your GI system than running, just given the nature of the activity. Uh, for me, it's been running. I mentioned the acid reflux thing earlier. Um, just being honest, we talked about TMI today. I have a bit of what you might say borders on like the irritable bowel syndrome, like the IBS. My dad had it, you know. Um, you know, my doctors told me you probably have a tendency towards that. So for me, my gut is very sensitive. Um, and so I have had experiences where I was running. One stands out in particular a few years ago where I was training for uh one of the half marathons we did. And for some reason I thought it would be a good idea to drink a Coca-Cola before I went on a run, like directly before I went on the run. And uh that was not good. Um, it wasn't necessarily uh manifesting itself in in the trots themselves, but basically it felt like um I had this like bloating pain about every 20 seconds, and then it would kind of like release and uh then it would come back again. And so I did that for about five miles. And yeah, miserable.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

This sounds to me like a perfect example of the jostling theory, right? I mean, so basically your gut or your stomach was like, you know, when you shake up a Pepsi can.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's just gas, right? And so you're like, it's like the gas was coming back every 20 seconds or so for five miles. That that was pure misery. Um I also had um a few weeks ago, we went for a trail run. We're training for like a nine-mile trail run right now. So we did about six and a half miles um on some trails out near a lake here in North Texas. And um, I was fine on the run, but once I got back home, it was not good. That was actually probably, now that I think about it, the runner's trots. And, you know, that I could trace back to like eating too close to the run. So I don't have you ever done that where maybe you don't give yourself enough time for digestion? And it makes total sense because uh what you're talking about in the research here, if the blood flow is diverting away from your gut to supply your heart and your body as you're running, uh, and you haven't fully digested your food yet, then it's not gonna go well when you get home. So that wasn't something that affected me during the race, but it did affect me or during the run, but it did affect me afterwards.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Oh, bingo. I have that has been like one of my primary issues. And I really had to work through the exact right timing around eating before a distance run because if you don't get it quite right, it really can cause some distress. But um, beyond personal experience, uh, we did find some research, right, Alex, that talks about endurance exercise more broadly.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Right. Yeah, we found a study called Systematic Review, Exercise Induced Gastrointestinal Syndrome, Implications for Health and Intestinal Disease. And it really, this article reaches the similar conclusions about the slowing of what they term gastric emptying being the main cause of distress. Uh, but they also point to heat as being a factor. So, Jen, having lived here in Texas, uh, maybe this is something we can talk about, uh, they found that quote, exercise stress of greater than two hours at 60% of your VO2 max, your oxygen intake, appears to be the threshold whereby significant gastrointestinal per perturbations manifest. That's a tough one, irrespective of fitness status. So basically, uh if you're running, you know, at a moderate clip for more than two hours, um, you can definitely induce some gastrointestinal problems. And the thing about heat is really interesting as well. I don't so I'm curious, you've lived in Texas for your whole life until recently, and you've moved to California now. Obviously, the climates are completely different. It's much cooler there in San Francisco. Has heat ever been a factor for you in terms of this?

SPEAKER_01 12:27

You know, it's interesting you bring that up because it has been much less of a factor here. I was getting GI distress pretty regularly on my long runs in Texas, and I really have not been as much here, with one exception, one very unfortunate exception, which was my actual full marathon that I ran when I moved out to California. It was San Francisco is uh microclimate, so it's cooler here than even surrounding parts of the of the state or the Bay Area. So I went just a few miles north and um by midday it was really warm. And I think I had miscalculated how dehydrated I would be and how much of a toll the heat would take, and had some cramping and a little GI distress, but the cramping was worse than that. So yeah, so yeah, the uh weather really does make a difference.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Um, that's amazing. So you're testing that theory. So that research was spot on.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yeah, the other thing I wanted to note about this research, it's nice to know that this when they say irrespective of fitness status, like even the elite athletes have to deal with this, right? Which is why it's something you know to talk about and to figure out some solutions for. So um, just talking about my own personal experience, I found that when I'm training for a marathon, for me, you know, because I'm not a super fast runner, it's usually, it's almost always running more than two hours at a stretch. And kind of like that research said, that's when my gut issues really start to kick in. So GI distress when you're exercising is not fun. And yet exercise appears to make your microbiome more healthy. So, what are we to do with this information?

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Yeah, so let's let's talk about maybe some ways that you can help mitigate this. So uh again, I mentioned, you know, I have an issue with this. Um, there's some things that I've found that have have generally helped me. And you know, the first thing is to talk to your doctor, right? So um it this stuff can just kind of like come on as you get older, for example. That's what that's what you know, I'd always had like a predis disposition to this, and then it got worse. And so I got, you know, as a especially as a male right now, like you see a lot of coverage about things like colon health and colon cancer. And we've had like one of the most amazing actors of our generation um passed away of this uh recently, Chad Chadwick Bozeman. So there's been a lot of coverage about it. So um I remember kind of being a bit scared when I started to have him where she's like, oh my gosh, maybe there's something really wrong with me. You know, I went and talked to my my doctor who's who is an amazing uh doctor, and you know, he put it in pretty stark terms. And I, you know, maybe I'll just throw this out there because it it if this is something you're struggling with and you're worrying about this as part of your health, he said to me, like, well, it's is your uh basically is your poop as black as the jacket that you're wearing today? And I said, No. He's like, is it as white as this wall over here? I'm like, no. He's like, okay, you're probably okay. So like Wow. Yeah, and no, I mean, honestly, it was a it was a discussion we had and it made me feel a lot better. And he says, suggested some things that could start helping me, you know, taking a daily probiotic, which I do. So I've tried different ones. Um, and you know, we're not big on like recommending products here, uh, but you know, I will say the align probiotic is awesome. It's the best one I've tried. Um, so that's that's been helpful. You know, I do the fiber, I try to ensure that I'm getting a lot of fiber. I I have smoothies every day. I also take metamucil, and that's really helpful because there's different you know forms of this where some people they will tend towards like diarrhea, for example, or some people they will tend towards like the constipation side of things. So the metamucil can can really help with that in terms of uh fiber, but also you have to look at your diet, right? So some of this when you if you're a runner or you know, if you are having trouble cycling or any activity that you're doing, it could be the things you're eating right before you exercise. So I mentioned trying to keep some time between eating and before you go for a run or go for a bike ride or whatever. Um, there could be foods that are just setting you off, right? So with IBS, this is one of the things they recommend, which is an elimination diet. So that's another thing that I did recommend it by my doctor. Um, you can go out and look up this diet called the FOD Map Diet, and it's an acronym, but it's a very limited diet, I will tell you. So it's not something you want to do long term. But what it does is you start with this diet, it eliminates basically anything that could be upsetting your gut, and then you go from there and see if it if you get better, which for me, like as soon as I did that, yeah, things were a lot better, but then you start trying things, right? So for me, number one thing I found was dairy. Like, I just don't do it anymore. Um, the only form of dairy that I eat is like aged cheese, uh, which is very low in lactose. Uh so for me, I've I I used to drink, and so I realized at this time when I was having trouble, I would drink like giant glasses of milk. Oh, because we grew up in that era, right? Where like so now you got all these different types of like milk replacements and oat milk and almond milk and cashew milk and lactate, and you know, there's 27 different types of milk now. When we grew up, it was it was just cow's milk, and that's what you drank. And you know, I my mom is very much a proponent of cow's milk, I can tell you, and she still talks about it and you know, derides me for my choice of almond milk now. But as soon as I cut that out, oh my gosh, big difference for me. So, you know, I experimented with things like gluten and all that, didn't seem to have much of an effect on me. You know, I've gone back to eating bread um and and things of that nature. But for me, it was really like trying that elimination diet and cutting the dairy that ended up helping me the most. And again, you know, things like processed foods and sugars, these are all parts of that FODMAP acronym that can really um upset your gut. So for me, all those things, it's you have to kind of attack it from different angles. Uh and and this is something that doesn't affect you just in terms of fitness, it affects your your daily life. So if you're having these issues, whether it's with fitness or just generally, it's good to try and take some of these steps and talk to your doctor and see what they recommend.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, what you were saying, when you were talking, it reminded me of this quote I heard. I can't remember where I read this, but there was a runner who said that when it comes to figuring out, you know, what what your gut can handle, what you know makes you feel good, that we're all an experiment of one. And I feel like that's really the case. You have to experiment with a bit to see what agrees with you. And since we're talking about all our issues here, I will say that dairy is also a big issue for me. And it took me years and years to figure this out. And it was actually finally by accident. I tried one year on my birthday, I decided I've been a lifelong vegetarian, but I thought I'd go vegan for a year just to see, see how hard it was, see how it made me feel. And within a few weeks to a month, all of a sudden all these gut issues that I had had my whole life just went away. And I was like, wow, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Yeah. And then since then we've determined it kind of runs in my family, uh, lactose intolerance or um dairy allergy. So, but it took me like so many decades to finally figure that out. And when I did, I felt so much better. Running was, I felt lighter when I was running, even though I hadn't actually lost weight. Um, you know, the gut issues were way more manageable. So that's one thing I pretty much avoid all the time now because you know, everybody loves cheese and ice cream, but I also love feeling good. And so when given the choice between that and the gastric issues that will no doubt ensue, I choose to uh avoid them.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yeah, that's you could so by the way, cheese tip. If you look at aged cheeses, you can even find kind of a scale of the amount of lactose in cheeses. So, like you can still enjoy cheese if you're not friendly with the dairy. It's just that certain types are better than others. And some of them aren't even made with cow's milk, right? So you're chego, uh, right, which is uh like a goat or sheep cheese, I believe. And then um stuff like Munster. Munster has almost no lactose in it, for example.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Oh, interesting. Did you know that? Cheese packed for you. No, a cheese pack. So it could be an occasional treat for me.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

That's yeah, and especially like you look if you go to the store and you're looking at the cheeses, you get you know those really aged cheeses, like very low in lactose. But yeah, there's there's information about this on the internet, and you can find which cheeses have the very low amount of lactose.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Fascinating. Well, I'll talk a little bit about uh being the experiment of one that I am. In addition to the dairy thing, some of the other things that over the years of running I've figured out, you know, uh what triggers my gut issues and what helps me avoid them. Um, you know, unfortunately, Alex, I cannot do the pre and probiotics. I know everybody says they're great for you, and I've tried them several times and they just really upset my stomach. Um, even kombucha, anything like that. So I like to think it's because my gut microbiome is just so healthy that I don't need them.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

But yeah, that if you if you have too you can actually have like an overabundance of you know of flora or whatever. Yeah, fla Yeah. So I think if if you take too much of probiotic, you can it can cause a lot of things like gas and bloating. Yeah. That's probably what's happening with you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

So yeah, so that's off the table for me. But one of the things I learned in the course of running many years was I have to avoid excessive sugar. And this is Really tricky for distance runners because the things that runners use to fuel or ingest during runs, they have a lot of carbohydrates and simple sugars. And there's a reason for that. It's because, you know, your gut, all that blood's been diverted away from your gut. So it's hard to digest anything really heavy. So simple sugars are easy to digest. They uh it goes immediately to your brain, which makes your brain want to continue running because your brain runs pretty much on pure sugar. Um that was a lay person's explanation. And then it also helps you uh fuel your legs so you can keep up the effort. But too much sugar, for me at least, has the opposite effect. It makes it hard for me to digest. Um, like really strong sports drinks I've found upset my stomach on a run. So I like to dilute it with some uh water. Or they have these things called goo or shot blocks, they're like a little athletic gummy, I guess. Um and those I have to take with a lot of water because just the sugar will really upset my stomach.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Yeah, I've had I've had that with the goo. I that happened one time where I try one of those on a long training run and I got an upset stomach. So that's why.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Yeah, absolutely. And then also weirdly, protein and fiber are not always your friends when you do distance running. So they're generally healthy and great. You should work them into your diet, but right before a long run, you don't want to take in too much fiber.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Yeah, that's so that's that's an important note.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

That is an important note. So the night before a race, you know, marathon runners notoriously will have pasta, but you might want to skip the whole wheat and just do your white pasta and not not load up on the salad, you know. So give yourself a treat that night and don't be too healthy with the fiber. And then protein. So we're talking about timing. I like I do like to have a light meal before my long runs, but anything with protein before protein takes a while to digest, so that's not necessarily the best choice before a run. Now, after your endurance workout, you're gonna need some protein to refuel. So that's a good thing, but not before it's not so great. So when I do my smoothie in the morning before a long run, I'll just take the protein powder out and just have a regular smoothie. Um, and then yeah, unfortunately, you have to give your gut time to adjust. So when I started doing long runs, the first few at a new distance were tough. And I would have the stomach distress afterwards, not typically during, but like the crampy bloating afterwards. And sometimes you just have to give it time. You know, after you run that distance a few times, your gut, weirdly enough, adjusts to the effort. And then I had the last one I have to say, this is one of the runners' cardinal rules. It's nothing new on race day. Have you heard this one, Alex?

SPEAKER_00 24:32

No, but that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Oh, yeah, so important. And it goes for food, shoes, etc. So you don't want to try something new that you haven't been training with. And it can be so tempting because you're on your race course, you're running your marathon, and somebody might be handing out some orange slices or some new brand of goo that you haven't tried, or even maybe a beer. And if you haven't done this before, the results could be disastrous and you might not even finish your race. So don't try anything new on race day.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

I gotta say, Jen, I think you should try out the Trail Endurance Runs because the variety of snacks that I saw when I volunteered at one of those was quite impressive and uh veered outside your traditional goos and yeah, it was amazing. What are we talking? Oh, everything. I mean, there was sugary stuff. I mean, they had candy out there, but they also had chips and pretzels and peanut butter sandwiches and a very inventive snack I thought, given that the race was in Texas, which was tortillas with avocados spread on it.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Oh, yum. That sounds delicious. No, I like this. This sounds really good.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Yeah, I think you need to check it out because they would there would be something there that you would find. They're also very big on pickle juice, I will say.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

I don't know if you've tried that, but I'm not a big fan, but I I get the appeal, you know. Well, especially if you're doing like 50-mile run. Yeah. Dehydration, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, but what about you, Alex? What are your top tips for what agrees with you during endurance training or exercise in general?

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Well, I think for me, as opposed to like the type of food that I'm eating, again, it's that thing I referenced before. It's like not eating too close to the workout. That's always whether it's going to cause distress during or after. That's one thing I really need to keep in mind. Um, especially since I've been getting back into the running lately. Like I said, that popped up last week. That's really important. Um, I liked your tip about not having too much fiber uh the morning before a big run or race. That makes a lot of sense to me. So um that would be one I would look at as well. And then also just trying to, I mean, I mentioned the different things I've done, you know, probiotic fiber, these these different things. Uh, I'm also taking a L-glutamine supplement now, which is supposed to like reduce inflammation in the gut. That's been good. So trying some of these things and seeing what works for you. Of course, talk to your doctor about it beforehand. But there are tons of supplements and probiotics and even teas that you can drink. Things like ginger and turmeric that are really good for your stomach and your gut. So um just trying to find some things that work for you from these sorts of natural remedies, I think, can be helpful as well.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

Absolutely. So I think we've learned a lot about the gut today. Um, we've found out exactly what's happening that makes you so uncomfortable during distance or endurance running. And uh, I think we've learned some practical tips for managing your gut. But yes, talk to your doctor and you are an experiment of one.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

So that's and this is not something I know it's an uncomfortable subject and it's embarrassing, but you know, it's it's something that you should don't not talk to your doctor about because I think some people just have the tendency to like uh I hate to say this, hold it in. Oh yeah. And this is really something you wanna you want to talk to your to your doctor about because they can help you think through some strategies for success.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Exactly. So that wraps it up for our gut health episode. Next time we're gonna talk about weightlifting, a beginner's guide to weightlifting. I'm really excited about this. I did a little bit of a blog post, but we're gonna go in even deeper on this topic. What are the benefits and how do you get started with it? And we'll give you some practical tips for that as usual.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Yeah, I'm excited about that. One of my favorite things, strength training. So we'll talk about that next week. Uh if you have a story you want to share, if you want to store share a gut health story with us and you want us to share that on the podcast, we're happy to. Um I don't know if we're gonna get a lot of takers on that, but that would be we'll see. Yeah. Please uh shoot me an email, alex at practically. Or you can comment on the podcast over at practically. And again, we'll be with you next week when we talk about weightlifting. But until then, remember that fitness is for everybody.