SPEAKER_02 0:14

Welcome to Practically Fit, Real Fitness Over 40. I'm Alex Johnson. And I'm Jen Chamberlain. And today we're going to talk about how hiking can benefit your fitness and your mental health.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

That's right. We thought this was a nice follow-up to our podcast last week on the benefits of exercise and mental health. So today we wanted to take it further and talk about how getting out into nature is a great way to mitigate stress and anxiety and to exercise at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Yeah, it's a really great way to exercise, Jen. Did you know that hiking burns roughly about twice as many calories as just a standard walk?

SPEAKER_00 0:49

No, I had no idea. That's cool. Not as much as running, but more than walking. That's cool.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Yeah, and I presume, you know, that's because when you're quote unquote hiking, you're getting out to maybe some more rugged areas, and it's not just like you're walking on a flat path. So yeah, it can definitely burn more calories. You also might have some gear with you. So I think there's a lot of good aspects to hype hiking from a fitness perspective, but um also the mental health perspective, and we touched on that last week.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Yeah, lots of benefits to hiking. So, but before we get into talking about our own experiences, let's talk about the science around this. When we were listening to Brandon talk last week about fitness and mental health, he talked about how helpful it can be just to get out and walk. But then what about hiking specifically? There was a 2015 Stanford study that found that hiking in nature reduces the risk of depression. Specifically, the study, which was titled Nature Experience, reduces rumination and subgenual prefrontal cortex activation. Ooh, that was a tough one.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Yeah, rumination. That's my favorite word in the rumination.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

That's right. Right. So the study found that people who walked for 90 minutes in a natural area, as opposed to participants in the study who walked in high traffic urban areas, they show decreased activity in a region of the brain that's associated with a key factor in depression. So this uh part of the prefrontal cortex, like you were saying, Alex, it um is associated with rumination, which I will confess is something I struggle with sometimes, where you get in this kind of like a negative thought loop and you just go around and around the same thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Yep. So I have I have been prone to ruminate, and uh sometimes you can realize that you're doing it, but other times it just goes on and on and you don't realize it for a while.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Yeah, it's hard to break that cycle. And apparently getting out in nature can really um break that chain of thought and make you feel better. So this is all great, but it was a little troubling to me because the same study showed that city dwellers have a 20% higher risk of anxiety disorders and a 40% higher risk of mood disorders compared to people in rural areas. So a little concerning since I tend to prefer to live in urban areas.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Right. Yeah, that's a that's a concerning stat. And that's why it's important to get out and get with nature, especially if you live in a city. But wait, there's more. Um, I wanted to pull out another study from Japan that compared people sitting in natural surroundings with people sitting in urban surroundings. So this is this is following up on that point about living in a city. Quoting from the study, quote, as a result, these subjects sitting in natural surroundings showed decreases in the following physiological indices compared with the urban control group. So they just literally measured these people sitting in the in nature and sitting in an urban area. So the people sitting in nature had a 12.4% decrease in cortisol. So this is what Brandon talked about last week with your stress hormone going down by getting out and getting activity. Uh, a 7% decrease in sympathetic nervous activity, a 1.4% decrease in systolic blood pressure, which I'll take 1.4% off my high blood pressure. Absolutely. Uh and a 5.8% decrease in heart rate. Uh so the the point of this is that like stressful states can be relieved by forest therapy. And it should also be noted that parasympathetic nerve activity increased by 55%, which indicates that you are in a relaxed state. So yeah, I want to note about this again, these aren't people exercising or they're just sitting in nature. So imagine when you mix in the element of moving and start hiking. It's great for your mental and your physical state. And I want to make another interesting point here. Uh so I we're talking about kind of combining this idea of being out with nature and getting movement in. But also if you are out in nature hiking or walking, take some time to stop and enjoy your surroundings. Be mindful, listen to the sounds of the forest or the water, the birds, observe everything around you that can be very powerful for your mental state.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Yeah, absolutely. I have to put in a plug though for urban hiking because I actually love urban hiking. And I think it's not quite the same as you know that forest experience that you're describing, but you can really get some enjoyment and the same kind of mindfulness. Just yesterday I was walking to um a postal place to drop off some UPS packages. Sounds very boring, but I walk through the park and was just, you know, looking at the trees and some of the quaint houses we have in San Francisco. And I think, you know, if you take that mindful approach and just kind of observe what you're taking in through your senses, even in an urban area, you can get, you know, get out of your thoughts a little bit. I will say though, San Francisco also has some amazing urban green spaces where you can feel like you're in the middle of nature even though you're still in the city.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Yeah, absolutely, Jen. And I wrote about this many months ago before we started the podcast over on Practically Fit. And even if you do live in a city, if you're not out in the country, it's actually quite easy to find nature. You're describing it there in San Francisco. I live in an urban area of seven million people, or more than seven million people here in Dallas. And I can find hikes just as close as half a mile from my house. You know, there is a nature preserve. So you can you can look around on the map and find parks and nature preserves. And then if you're willing to get out of the city, if you have a car, um, you know, you drive an hour and you can be somewhere that is feels completely out of the way and away from the city. So even when you're in the city, I think it's it's important, as you note, to realize that you can do hiking and get out with nature. Absolutely. So, aside from the mental benefits that we just talked about in these studies, Jen, what are some of the other benefits that you can get from going on a hike?

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Yeah, absolutely. So um, another thing that hiking does is it improves balance, which actually worsens as we age. Balance can become a concern as you know we get a little bit older. And hiking helps with that because you're having to, you know, a little bit more uneven footing than if you're walking on a sidewalk or running on a sidewalk. So it helps you work on your balance as you're hiking, and then it also increases bone density. And uh, you've heard me say this, Alex, many times, but that is a real concern, particularly for women as we age, we tend to lose that bone density, which can lead to risk of fractures and the types of things that will really, you know, impact your quality of life as you age. But hiking, uh, walking, and of course running all increase bone density.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Yeah, important point. And so I I enjoy cycling, but cycling really doesn't help you with bone density. So if you're a cyclist, for example, um and you don't want to run, getting out and going for a hike can be really beneficial for that bone density.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Yeah, really complimentary, I'd say.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

So, Jen, we've talked about the scientific benefits uh of hiking. So now let's talk about some of our experiences with hiking and our favorite hikes. Yeah. One thing I want to point out here is that you'll notice that we often do these hikes with fitness friends. And again, that's something I wanted to draw the thread through from last week's podcast. It's something that Brandon noted. It's that aspect of being social that's also healthy for you. Even if you're a massive introvert like me, if you have your close friends or family members you can go on a hike with. Uh so to me, that's why I think hiking is so perfect, and I wanted to talk about this week with you. Because if you can do it with a friend, you can get the cardiovascular benefit and the mental health benefit, it really is truly a perfect form of exercise.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Absolutely. So, top of my list, favorite hikes. I have to start with the one, Alex, that you and I did with another friend, and that was uh Guadalupe Peak, the highest point in Texas.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Very good hike.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

It was such a great hike. Um, it's about 8,000 feet, which you know, for folks who live in Colorado or some other states, that may seem pretty humble, but it is the top of Texas, highest point there. And um, I remember we were actually a little intimidated because the park ranger sort of scared us about like the hike.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Yeah, I mean, he he made it sound like we were gonna get up there and be stuck in the middle of the night or something. Like not that long a hike, dude.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

You need a flashlight. You need you need to take a flashlight if you're going up there now.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

I was I was pretty I was pretty worried, exactly, because we were leaving early in the morning and he's talking about a flashlight and not getting stuck up there and some people camp at the top. I thought, oh my gosh, like what have we signed ourselves up for? So as a result, we started off at a really, really brisk pace because I think we were concerned like about getting to the top and back. And uh, I have to say, like that first um the first little bit like really wore me out. And then we realized, hey, we're already halfway there, we're doing fine.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Yeah, because it was about you say it's 8,000 feet, right? But for context, I think we did somewhere around 3,000 to 3,500 feet of actual hiking up, right? Climb, right, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it's a pretty good amount of climbing, but yeah, it's not gonna take all day, like the park was just scared.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

But we finally got to the top, and it was just like so exhilarating. It was, I think, a pretty chilly day, pretty cold up there, and um, just seeing, you know, you could see so far. And really at the time, that was I think the longest and most strenuous hike that I had ever done. So I just had a real sense of accomplishment. Um, so that was definitely an enduring favorite of mine.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Yeah, and you know, there were some uh kind of challenging parts to that trail where you're just on a cliff edge on. So it was, yeah, it was a pretty exhilarating hike. I really enjoyed that as well. That's one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yeah, super fun. Another one that stands out to me was um I decided to take a trip up the coast of California before I actually moved here. And I stopped in Santa Barbara and I wanted to do this hike that's sort of like it was said, you know, like the most highly rated. So I got there and um it was early in the morning. I was all by myself, and there was this other guy, just random person who was happened to be at the trailhead, and we ended up hiking together. And that ended up being a really special experience for a couple of reasons. It was a great hike, and then also um, you know, this guy and I talked the whole way up, and again, I didn't know this person from anybody. Um, and honestly, you know, I have to say, like being a woman by myself, I was a little, you know, a little concerned. You always think about those things. Uh, but he was just great and uh just super nice and uh thoughtful. And so I made a friend while uh doing about a four and a half, five mile hike in Santa Barbara. So that was another one. Um sometimes your fitness friends are people you just met that day.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Yeah. So did you it just was it just for the day, or do you still communicate with this person?

SPEAKER_00 11:59

We stayed Instagram friends, actually. So I don't really we don't really communicate, but you know, follow each other on social media or whatever. So yeah, that was nice. And then the last one, wow, um, I did the Manitou Springs Inline with my sister, and uh that is a really challenging hike. It's just straight up up this old um, it used to be like a cog railway, and they replaced it with a hiking trail. So this sort of rugged uh timbers all the way to the top. And um, that's one I would never do again. But again, just the the challenge of it and then the feeling of accomplishment when we got to the top. That's probably my third favorite. What about you, Alan?

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Similar to similar to Guadalupe Peak, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

Sure, yeah. Uh I'll talk about a few. So uh first I would start with a couple that I would label my honeymoon hikes in England's lake district, and this was last summer. Um, so there were there were two of them. There was one that was just a random hike out of the village we were staying in, which was called Cartmell, which is kind of on the southern portion of the lake district. And for um the lake district is uh further up in England, further north, not quite to Scotland that far, but it's an area where there are a lot of small, really beautiful lakes surrounded by big hills and some small mountains. So it's it's one of the most beautiful places I've ever been to. Um, I had also gone there uh when I was younger with my parents. So the first night we were there, you know, I'd been looking at the maps and I could tell there were some footpaths out of the village. So we just started hiking, and that's one of the amazing things about England is they have this public footpath system that covers the whole country, and it's really fun to explore. And you end up going through like farm farmers' fields and people's land. It's not like the US where like you're doing this and people would be like, get off my property, you know, type of thing. Like it's it's public land, you're able to do this, so it's really cool. So you just walk right through uh farms. And that that first night we walked up um what was called a fell. It was a huge hill there outside the village, and you just walk straight up, straight up it through um somebody's farm, and uh there was this old shelter uh at the top called a hospice, uh, and it was sort of like an observation point as well. Old stone walls everywhere, and then on the way back down, we walked through this massive herd of cattle, which was really weird because you know, in Texas, you see cattle by the road, or like I'll be out riding my bike. I saw some the other day, and you know, they're kind of scared of the bikes. But I guess these cattle were used to people walking by, so they didn't move at all. They were like statues. And oh wow, when you're up close to a cow, I mean they're huge, so it's really creepy. They just stared at us. Uh, that was the weirdest experience I've ever had with cows. Uh, but that was a really cool hike. On the way down, there's this really amazing old golf course that you could walk, only walk on, and it was sort of embedded into the hill. Uh, and so I made a mental note that I want to play that golf course one day. Uh, the other hike on that trip was up a peak called the old man of Coniston. Just really beautiful. There was a lake nestled halfway up the mountain. Uh, there were these ruins of this old mining operation at the top, similar to what you were describing with Manitou Springs. And, you know, they had like signs saying this was someone's office. And uh and then, you know, just at the top, amazing views of the lake district. And the really great thing about these two hikes is we went to the pub afterwards. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

If you're hiking in the UK, you have to go to the pub afterwards, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

I will say I have been chased by a bull once, so uh be careful with those cattle. They must stay here.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

We were like, do we go? How close do we get to these these cats? It was weird. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Yeah, yeah. So I would be a little cautious around cattle and also buffalo. Uh, they they're very uh ferocious, actually, animals. Buffalo hiking in a national park. Uh, be careful with the bison or the buffalo.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Oh, we'll do. I know you're you're vegetarian, but I will say the buffalo is very tasty. It's much healthier meat.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Oh, I want to uh before you go on, I also want to chime in because I had a really nice hiking experience while I was in the UK for your wedding, Alex. And again, like the out it was a footpath and a field, but just so beautiful. I wanted to take a little break. You know, my introversion was kicking in. I needed a break from people. So the uh property owner showed me this footpath, and I just went for this nice long hike in a field. It was beautiful. It's just so culturally different, I think, than what we have in the United States.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Yeah. Was that during the wedding?

SPEAKER_00 16:36

It was yeah, in the break between the meals. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

Oh, cool. Yeah, no, I think we took some pictures back there. But yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. And that's what's amazing about this footpath. You'll climb over fences, they have places in the fences for you to climb over. It's it's amazing. Um I wanted to mention. Um, one in Texas, Enchanted Rock. So it is a massive rock that uh sticks up out of the ground, essentially, in the Texas Hill Country. It's an escarpment, they call it. And I've for I've done this hike several times. It's my favorite natural spot in Texas. First did it with my seventh grade class. And uh you basically walk straight up the side of this rock and it can be very hot in the summer, I will say. So that's a warning in Texas. If you decide to do this hike, I don't recommend doing it in like July because the sun is just baking on you. Um but what's really amazing is you get to the top, there's this great view, but also there's this like very specialized ecosystem at the top of the rock because water pools on top of it, and there's these plants growing out of the water, the ponds of water. It's really cool. I saw a kid rip one of those plants out and run around with like a spear over his head, which his parents did nothing. You know, if a park rager had been there, he would have been escorted out. It's like it's because there's all these signs about how it's this super, you know, special ecosystem, and then he just goes and rips one of these large pots.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

It was horrible. Um, but yeah, that it's a great place to hike with fitness friends. Uh, I took my wife there two years ago. It's one of the first places I wanted to show her in Texas. And then my last one is is very nostalgic because it's really the first real hike that I can remember, and it was with my parents when I was younger. So I just remember that experience. It was hiking up a place called Arthur's Seat, which is a big hill, the highest hill above Edinburgh, Scotland. And we're on a trip there, and I remember thinking, wow, this is really cool. I just love the idea of the trail and going up the hill. So I still love hills to this day, obviously, I'm both on foot and on my bike. Um, and the Wikipedia description of this sums it up well. It's an ancient volcano, which is the main peak of a group of hills in Edinburgh, Scotland, which formed most of Holyrood Park, described by Robert Louis Stevenson as, quote, a hill for magnitude, a mountain in virtue of its bold design, and you get a beautiful view of Edinburgh at the top. So it's a frequent destination there for hikers.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Yeah, so we've talked about our favorite hikes, Jen, um, and why it's such a great form of fitness. But what if you're thinking about starting to hike and you've never done it before? Well, you're in luck. We've got some tips for you. So, Jin, let's start with you. What are your tips for the first-time hiker?

SPEAKER_00 19:18

Oh, yes, I think everybody should learn from my rookie mistakes. So I think the preparation is really important. Um, my sister lives in Colorado, and so we hike together. A lot of times when I'm visiting her, we'll go on hikes. When she visits has visited me here in San Francisco, we've gone on hikes, and somehow we always end up going on much longer hikes than we anticipated with no food or water, which is a really bad idea. Particularly the water.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Yeah, the water is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Yeah, you can get away with it a little bit because it's not as hot and humid here. It's still just not a good idea, though, to hike without water. And uh, I've done this more times than I can count. So I'm trying to get better about it. Um, you know, I have a camel back, one of these little backpacks that carries water. Yeah, it's easy for me to do. I just forget or I think, oh, I'm not gonna go, we're not gonna go that far. And then sure enough, we end up, you know, out like for four hours with nothing. So yes, be prepared. It you're never gonna be um, you're never gonna regret bringing some water and you know, maybe a snack or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

Yeah, and in Texas, I've seen hikes, uh, for example, at Paladora Canyon, which is in the panhandle, it's really hot up there in the summer. They tell you how much water you should take with you. And it's not a small amount, especially if it's hot outside. So you have to be very careful with that.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Yeah, absolutely. And of course, uh sunscreen if you're hiking in the sun and bug spray. So this is another rookie mistake. One of my first hikes, and also a place I actually love to hike was in Hot Springs, Arkansas. There's a lovely hot springs, you can do the whole spa thing, but there's also some really good hiking trails. So the first time I went hiking there, oh, first of all, I wore flip-flops.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Um, not really that's really supportive on your ankles.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Oh, they were terrible. My feet were killing me by the end of the hike. That was so bad. And then I also didn't um use bug spray. So that night I was, you know, like laying in my hotel bed and I feel something crawling on my leg. And I look and there's like a tick on me, and I was just so creeped out, and I was like, oh yeah, it's because I went hiking today and I didn't use bug spray. So now I always um you know spray my shoes and stuff to keep the ticks off because ticks are in a lot of parts of the country, you know, they'll climb up your legs and are really problems. Oh, yeah, you can actually get uh Rocky Mountain spotted fever in Colorado from ticks, so or Lyme disease, yeah. No joke, use bug spray, it's not that hard, and it will keep the ticks off of you.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

So uh not to scare anyone away from hiking, but and also in Texas we have the chiggers, which are horrible and not and you get. That going through the high grass, uh, and that's it just irritates your legs, and it can get all the way up into your groin.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

It's not oh, they're terrible. Yes, I forgot about triggers, we don't have them here. And then um, you know, my sister and I have talked about hiking solo, and I think we're both of the mind that probably anything super strenuous or very remote, we probably wouldn't want to do solo just because, like, you know, what if you twisted your ankle or something like or get bit by a rattlesnake? Like, how what are you gonna do about that? So, you know, probably I would say if you're gonna do something really remote, it might be better to go with a fitness friend or a buddy, but at the very least, tell somebody where you're gonna be, you know, so that um if you do get into trouble, that they would know where to look for you.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Yeah, I agree. I mean, there is something powerful about being out by yourself in the middle of the nowhere. But if it's a if it's longer than like five miles, I would, I would be, you know, air on the safe side.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Yeah, and remoteness is also a factor. Going all the way back to what you said, Alex, here in the city, there are amazing trails that are just right in the heart of the city. So you can easily just pop out into civilization whenever you want. But I think the more remote places, it would be better to have a buddy.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Yeah, absolutely. So I'll share a couple of tips as well. My first one is about the actual trails themselves and the difficulty. So if you've never gone hiking before, um, the parks that you go to, if they're, you know, national parks or like state parks, they'll generally have a difficulty rating. Um, so if they have a hiking map, you can check the difficulty rating. Um, you know, they'll range from beginner to challenging usually. And if you're unsure, ask a park ranger. If you're if something looks like it might be a bit much, if you haven't done it before, definitely ask a park ranger. Yeah, if it's a national park and it says challenging, that like that's actually quite challenging. Um, I know we've joked before about how the Texas State Park's version of challenging is not always the most challenging, but yeah, National Park, it if it says that it's serious business. Uh, I think the one we did at Guadalupe Peak was uh rated as challenging. Speaking of, you can use an app like All Trails, which will include people's reviews of the trails, photos, and maps to really check out the trails beforehand. So um I I like using that app because I can go on and I'll even use it to find new trails in the Dallas area that I haven't found before or a little further out. But really good app. There's also trail forks if you're into mountain biking, but there's various things out there that can give you an advanced look at the trails. And the photos are really helpful because you can also see like, is this kind of a boring trail, or is it really uh does it look quite nice and and quite beautiful? So um, I've seen somewhere I'm like, ooh, that looks pretty boring. So always want to avoid those. Uh and final tip is to wear the right shoes. You alluded to this with your flip-flops, um, trail shoes, uh hiking boots. I've learned this the hard way. I once tried to break in a pair of sneakers on a hike uh at Palo Duro Canyon. It was a hike out to the what they called the lighthouse, and that was a kind of a really cool rock feature out on the edge of the canyon. It was about eight miles round trip. Uh, and um I ended up with searing pain in my Achilles tendon for the last four miles of an eight-mile hike. So it felt like I could barely walk for four miles. So never try to break in shoes and don't wear flip-flops on a hike. Uh, and I would say on really rugged hikes where there is a lot of elevation change, you want the hiking boots. Um, they prevent you from turning your ankles. Uh, I'm really bad about this. That old man of Coniston, I turned my ankle about four times on a hike. And I was, we hadn't really gone prepared for hiking, honestly. So I was wearing tennis shoes. So on something like that where you're doing a lot of elevation, the hiking boots are really important. Uh, so those are my three tips. I think between us, we've given you some great tips uh if you're a first-time hiker. Uh, and we hope that everybody who's listening, if you haven't done a hike before, maybe you'll be inspired and get out and do a hike. Please share with us if you do comment on the podcast. We welcome your comments.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Yeah, absolutely. So that's it for this week's episode of the podcast. Next week, we're going to talk about supplements. Are there any that are worth taking or are you just wasting your money? So, yeah, I'm excited to really dig into some research for this one because I've had this question for a while. So we'll be talking about that next week.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

Yeah, I can share my experience. I have a long history with supplements. So there's a few I take now, but the couple the kind of supplements I'm taking these days have changed a lot from the stuff I was taking when I was younger. So I have some fun stories around that. I'm excited to talk about uh supplements next week on the podcast. Uh, but as Jen said, that's it for the show this week. Hope you enjoyed it. Again, if you have comments, ideas, questions, please feel free to comment over at practically.fit. Sign up for the newsletter to get great content in your inbox on a weekly basis from me and Jen. If you have questions again, you can email me alex at practically.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Fitness is for everybody, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.